JayDubs visit

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JayDubs visit

Post  snafu on Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:47 pm

Hey
Had the JW's visit just now. They were nice enough & retreated with a polite 'no thankyou'.

How do you respond? Any pearls of wisdom?

snafu
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  Farfromfaith on Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:09 pm

As a christian I would invite them in and duke it out. Spent many years watching and listening to my Dad pick holes in there theology. He was quite good at it. If he took the same style of approach to his own upbringing/belief he probably wouldn't be preaching today.

As for now, the same I usually just say no and decline the offer to be part of the kingdom. They usually take a little more then tat to leave though, but generally I leave it with a "pamphlets are so 1990's man".
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  jifrock on Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:29 pm

You could always take a leaf out of Bernard Black's playbook - skip to 1'55" to get the relevant bit.
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  snafu on Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:05 am

Cool. Another BlackBooks fan. If only they would have nothing to say if invited in.
Cheers
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Not really JW, but still...

Post  blacklens on Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:13 am

I just have to share this with you guys. Even though it’s not about JW, it’s about an evangelizing moron who used to be my neighbor.
When we lived next door to each other he occasionally witnessed to me, and my response was always polite but quite clear – ‘No thank you, I’m an atheist.’ A few months ago I moved to the opposite side of town and I hoped that that would be the last I saw of him, but no… One day when I got home from work I found a letter from him on my doormat. Inside was a short note and a pamphlet called ‘Who was before?’ (I know, it’s a weird title in English, but believe me it was equally weird in Swedish) which basically was ID propaganda. I was completely flabbergasted and the only response I could think of was to copy a few pages of The God Delusion or God Is Not Great and send back to him (which I never got around to doing). Anyway, a few days later I ran into him and this conversation took place:

Evangelizing Moron =EM, Blacklens=B
EM: ‘Hi! Did you get that info I send you?’
B: ‘Eeeeeh…… hi. Yeah, I did.’
EM: ‘So, what did you think? Honestly.’
B: ‘Eeeeh…. That it was very… persistent of you?? But, you know, evolution can explain all of those things. You know I don’t believe in God’
EM: ‘But, what do you think happens afterwards?’
B: ‘After what?’
EM: ‘You know, afterwards. After you die.’
B: ‘Well, nothing. I won’t exist anymore.’
EM: ‘Doesn’t that feel really really sad?’
B: ‘No, not really. I mean, the universe has been around for almost 14 billion years and I’ve only been here for little more than 30 years, so I think I’m actually quite good at not existing.’
EM: ‘But what will you say to God when you meet him in Heaven?’
B: ‘Well, since I don’t believe there is a god and since I will be dead, I won’t be saying much.’
EM: ‘You don’t believe in God?’
B: ‘No.’
EM: ‘You just made God very sad and upset!’
B: ‘Well, since I don’t believe there is a god, I don’t really know how that would affect me.’
EM: ‘You deny God?!’
B: ‘Yes!’
EM: (long pause) ‘I don’t think we have anything more to say to each other.’
B: ‘I believe you are right about that.’

Since then he doesn’t even acknowledge my existence. I’m happy with that!
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  Nicholas on Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:32 am

The last time I had someone come to my door (a rare occasion) it was two little old ladies with foofy dresses and huge purses. I think the idea was no one could get angry at two sweet little grandmas, and would be more apt to listen to what they were selling. I opened the door when I heard the knock-knock, and after regaining my composure from being so taken aback by all the flower patterns and white hair, I politely told them I could not in good conscience accept their superstition into my home, and that Cthulhu would be angry if he knew I was even talking to Christians. I think the latter part sailed right over their giant hairdos, because they just blankly smiled and bid me a good day. Ah well.

Blacklens -

That conversation, however common with people of that mind, still leaves me stunned. It's as if the man's brain simply cannot process that someone might not believe in a ghost in the clouds pulling the strings of life. Reading your text, I can almost see his face, frozen like a computer screen with a giant "FATAL ERROR: CANNOT COMPUTE" message. I love and I hate that face.
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  Stegocephalian on Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:51 am

Good stories blacklens and Nicholas! Razz

I remember, some years ago, being stopped on the street by a few JWs, which is kinda unusual, since at least in Finland they just tend to stand around with their pamphlets waiting for people to come to them. I happened to have some time to kill, so I started debating them on matters of religion, and science.

When they weren't getting through to me, and I kept asking inconvenient questions, they soon had backup - started with two guys, and suddenly it was five. There was one guy who was smarter than the rest, and figured that I'm beyond hope fairly quickly, and took his leave. But what was really funny and slightly annoying was that the contribution of one of the guys in that discussion seemed to be to tell me that "Jesus loves you". And not just once, but again, and again, and again. That's all he said. Ever.

And the "Jesus loves you" guy was the most persistent of them - after the rest had figured that they can't win, and that I'm probably the devil incarnate, using reason and logic at them so mercilessly and cunningly, the "Jesus loves you guy" stuck around telling me that "Jesus loves you", though he seemed to get more insistent and annoyed in his tone by the end, as if he was perplexed why his tactic wasn't working. Shocked

In the end, I excused myself from his company, after the last half-sane person capable of a discussion had given up.

"But how would you explain..."
"Jesus loves you."
"But what about..."
"Jesus loves you!"
"Now that's not going to..."
"Jesus LOVES you!" Neutral
"Ok... well, gotta be going now... have a nice day"
"JESUS LOVES YOU!" Suspect
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  blacklens on Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:19 am

Nicholas wrote:That conversation, however common with people of that mind, still leaves me stunned. It's as if the man's brain simply cannot process that someone might not believe in a ghost in the clouds pulling the strings of life. Reading your text, I can almost see his face, frozen like a computer screen with a giant "FATAL ERROR: CANNOT COMPUTE" message. I love and I hate that face.

I know exactly what you mean. It's interesting and at the same time sad seeing the words going round and round inside his head trying to find something to connect to and in the end just give up.

Stegocephalian wrote:I remember, some years ago, being stopped on the street by a few JWs, which is kinda unusual, since at least in Finland they just tend to stand around with their pamphlets waiting for people to come to them. I happened to have some time to kill, so I started debating them on matters of religion, and science.

When they weren't getting through to me, and I kept asking inconvenient questions, they soon had backup - started with two guys, and suddenly it was five. There was one guy who was smarter than the rest, and figured that I'm beyond hope fairly quickly, and took his leave. But what was really funny and slightly annoying was that the contribution of one of the guys in that discussion seemed to be to tell me that "Jesus loves you". And not just once, but again, and again, and again. That's all he said. Ever.

And the "Jesus loves you" guy was the most persistent of them - after the rest had figured that they can't win, and that I'm probably the devil incarnate, using reason and logic at them so mercilessly and cunningly, the "Jesus loves you guy" stuck around telling me that "Jesus loves you", though he seemed to get more insistent and annoyed in his tone by the end, as if he was perplexed why his tactic wasn't working.

It's pretty much the same here in Sweden. On very rare occasions I stumble upon some lost LDS guys from the US, or some JWs. I've never really debated any of them though (trying to 'respect their beliefs'), so I have decided that next time I'll go have some coffee with them (well, I guess the LDS guys will have to drink some sarsparilla or something instead) and do some proper debating and talking and the occasional listening.

That 'jesus loves you' guy sounds hilarious though :-)
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  jifrock on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:26 pm

blacklens wrote:‘Who was before?’ (I know, it’s a weird title in English, but believe me it was equally weird in Swedish)

Not as weird as 'skapelsetro'! I think that works on two levels.

I spent a year in Sweden on a student exchange back in 1989. It is strange to think of the reality of biblical literalism in Sweden. Then again I had never met a 'skapelsetroende' in my homeland until my late, late twenties. I guess it speaks about the absence of religion in my life: it had never occurred to me that these people existed in Australia. I was giving someone a lift up to a University residential when she started telling me that the biblical creation was literally true. In this case it was me who was absolutely stunned. It was me who was experiencing the "FATAL ERROR: CANNOT COMPUTE"

Anyway, thanks blacklens. In trying to translate "who was before", I have discovered that my Swedish language skills have deteriorated to an appalling level. Reading - attempting to read - this article on Intelligent Design i Sverige convinced me of the need to work on them a bit, well more than a bit. Australians are particularly deficient when it comes to second languages so the maintenance of one already acquired should not be ignored.

Will stand me in good stead if the people from Föreningen Genesis come a-calling
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  blacklens on Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:48 am

jifrock wrote:
blacklens wrote:‘Who was before?’ (I know, it’s a weird title in English, but believe me it was equally weird in Swedish)

Not as weird as 'skapelsetro'! I think that works on two levels.

I spent a year in Sweden on a student exchange back in 1989. It is strange to think of the reality of biblical literalism in Sweden. Then again I had never met a 'skapelsetroende' in my homeland until my late, late twenties. I guess it speaks about the absence of religion in my life: it had never occurred to me that these people existed in Australia. I was giving someone a lift up to a University residential when she started telling me that the biblical creation was literally true. In this case it was me who was absolutely stunned. It was me who was experiencing the "FATAL ERROR: CANNOT COMPUTE"

Anyway, thanks blacklens. In trying to translate "who was before", I have discovered that my Swedish language skills have deteriorated to an appalling level. Reading - attempting to read - this article on Intelligent Design i Sverige convinced me of the need to work on them a bit, well more than a bit. Australians are particularly deficient when it comes to second languages so the maintenance of one already acquired should not be ignored.

Will stand me in good stead if the people from Föreningen Genesis come a-calling
I don't think I've heard the term 'skapelsetroende' before. Huh! Fancy that! An Aussie teaching a Swede Swedish Very Happy . Well, let me know if I can help you refurbishing your Swedish (why you should want ME to help you I have no idea, considering my obvious ignorance of the language Wink ).
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Blasphemous anagram

Post  blacklens on Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:39 pm

One of the stories in Swedish newspapers today is about the blasphemous violation of one of JW's Kingdom Halls. Someone had played scrabbles with their sign. Instead of 'Rikets Sal' (Kingdom Hall) the sign now displayed the word 'Skitarsle' which literally means 'shit ass' but would probably be better translated to 'asshole'.

Note! Not created with the Church Sign Generator tongue
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  jifrock on Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:11 pm

jätte kul Very Happy
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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  NedStark on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:18 pm

I'm a former JW myself, so I've been on the other side of the argument. It's amazing how much they're taught to compartmentalize. If you use half of the arguments they use against other religions on them, they'd fall apart instantly. They are actually taught to be very critical thinkers. The only problem is that the critical thinking is limited to a walled garden where the only "research" they conduct is out of their own society's publications. Anything critical of "the organization" is from Satan and thus automatically lies. I'm glad I'm out now.

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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  NedStark on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:27 pm

Stegocephalian wrote:
"But how would you explain..."
"Jesus loves you."
"But what about..."
"Jesus loves you!"
"Now that's not going to..."
"Jesus LOVES you!" Neutral
"Ok... well, gotta be going now... have a nice day"
"JESUS LOVES YOU!" Suspect

Wow, I can honestly say I've never heard that phrase used by JWs during my days as one of them. Of course there may be a difference between American JWs and Swedish JWs, too. All I know that in my experience, we avoided that particular phrase because here in the U.S. it's closely related to the mainline protestant churches which in our eyes were "false religion." In fact there's a song called "Jesus loves me" that I wasn't allowed to sing in school because of one lyric where it talks about children going to heaven (JWs believe that only 144,000 go to heaven, the rest who aren't killed at armageddon live forever on earth making it a paradise).

Are you sure they were JWs? I think people tend to make a brand-name association with JWs and anybody that proselytizes in public. Again, "Jesus Loves You" is not something I think a typical JDub would say.

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Re: JayDubs visit

Post  Stegocephalian on Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:25 am

NedStark wrote:
Are you sure they were JWs? I think people tend to make a brand-name association with JWs and anybody that proselytizes in public. Again, "Jesus Loves You" is not something I think a typical JDub would say.

Now that you point it out, I can't say I'm sure. Shocked

It was several years ago, and it might have been that I just assumed they were JWs, because there are always JWs standing around near the railway station (where this incident took place). Now that I think of it, as I mentioned in my earlier post, these "JW"s were acting untypically for the usual JWs around that place - they don't tend to approach you, but rather wait for you to approach them. These were more in-your-face evangelists.

I'm trying to think of whether they actually identified themselves as JWs, but I can't say I remember whether they did or not. So this might have been just me jumping into a false conclusion. Embarassed
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