Way of the Master + Darwin???

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Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  exxian on Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:45 am

Way of the Master's Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron are handing out copies of Origin of the Species with their OWN PREFACE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9zpf5cT0M


Check that shit out.
These guys are so sleazy but this is a new low even for them.

Also is it me, or can CHILDREN STILL PRAY IN SCHOOLS as long as it isn't sanctioned by the school??
Or am I wrong on that one?


Also I kind of want one just for the freakish novelty.

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  Stegocephalian on Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:00 am

Kirk Cameron is a dimwit.

You thought right - prayer isn't forbidden in schools in the US. You can pray all you want. But led prayer is forbidden - so a teacher can't say "let's all bow our heads and pray". And this is simply obvious common sense as to why it is RIGHT that this is so - not everybody in the class is likely to believe in a god, and even the believers don't necessarily believe in the same god(s).

So even a Christian should acknowledge that it would be wrong for the teacher to lead the class in prayer - it comes down to the golden rule; do onto others as you would have them do onto you. So if a Christian isn't comfortable with an atheist teacher setting aside a moment to appreciate the absense of any supernatural influences in the universe, and to extoll the virtues of godlessness, they should understand why an atheist isn't comfortable with the teacher leading the class in prayer. Do onto others.... have they forgotten that bit? Neutral

Further, the point is that public schools are supported by tax dollars - if a teacher uses class time and public facilities to promote a religious view, then that would mean that atheist parents are forced to pay, in their tax dollars, for the religious indoctrination of their children. Again, I would ask any Christian to consider the converse: would they be happy to pay with their tax dollars for the atheist teacher to explain to their children how there's no god? They'd be outraged! Yet they can't see why an atheist parent, in the same situation, forced to pay to have their child exposed to religious practices they fundamentally disagree with, would be just as outraged. It seems to me to be a fundamental failure of empathy, that so may Christians so vehemently drive for the use of public property, time, and tax money to promote THEIR worldview, at the expense of all the others. Rolling Eyes

The muddying of the waters of the kind that Kirk Cameron is doing, making utterly false claims like "you aren't allowed to pray in schools", is nothing but fear mongering and riling up the mob with lies, to hide the fact that it is THEY who are driving for change that is unconstututional, and immoral to boot.

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  timmeh on Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:44 am

I find a the bastardisation of Darwin's book pretty offensive to be honest. I wouldn't support a similar act being done to the bible as I see an this as nothing short of petty vandalism.

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  KMB on Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:03 am

You can download the 50-page introduction as PDF here. I only glanced through the first 13 pages, it starts out telling the story of his life which seems accurate then it goes batshit insane:
The DNA Code
Consider for a moment whether you could ever believe
this publication happened by accident. Here’s the argument:
There was nothing. Then paper appeared, and ink fell from
nowhere onto the flat sheets and shaped itself into perfectly
formed letters of the English alphabet. Initially, the letters
said something like this: “fgsn&k cn1clxc dumbh cckvkduh
vstupidm ncncx.” As you can see, random letters rarely produce
words that make sense. But in time, mindless chance formed
them into the order of meaningful words with spaces between
them.

All the accurate information seems to be copied from http://www.darwin200.org.

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  jgrow2 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:28 pm

Stegocephalian wrote:Kirk Cameron is a dimwit.

Exactly the phrase I said watching that BS. It was just embarrassing. Unfortunately they disabled comments on the video itself. A bunch of chickens.

The bitch of it is, by mentioning these two clowns, by even breathing their names, we're helping their cause.

Would an imprecatory prayer toward these two be so wrong? I mean really now....

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  jgrow2 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:37 pm

timmeh wrote:I find a the bastardisation of Darwin's book pretty offensive to be honest. I wouldn't support a similar act being done to the bible as I see an this as nothing short of petty vandalism.

Yes yes, I agree, what these boobs are doing is sleazy. But how would they like it if such a thing were assembled and disseminated about the Bible?

Now hold on here. They might be on to something. Since there are public domain versions of the Bible, why not write up a middling-length intro describing the most egregious bits, the ridiculousness of Leviticus, as well as the contradictions of the Gospels and the epistles of Paul and self-publish?

I wonder if they took the copy of Origin available from Project Gutenberg? If so, did they print the boilerplate that's supposed to travel with that copy? I smell lawsuit otherwise.


Last edited by jgrow2 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarifying)

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  Aught3 on Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:07 am

Seems like a useless attempt to be honest. I think it might actually work in our favour, Ray's arguments are so bad undecided people can see right through them and it might actually get more people to read the origin of species, which is never a bad thing.


Last edited by Aught3 on Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Sp.)

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  jgrow2 on Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:18 am

Aught3 wrote:Seems like a useless attempt to be honest. I think it might actually work in our favour, Ray's arguments are so bad undecided people can see right through them and it might actually get more people to read the origin of species, which is never a bad thing.

It is, you're right. However, I think they'll hand copies of this book out and by day's end those copies not tossed in the garbage or pwned by kids on Youtube will end up in the used book stores around these colleges

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  timmeh on Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:06 am

I like Matt Dillahunty's (sp?) idea. If at all possible, get one or as many of these books as you can and either rip out the foreward, or go through and debunk it in the margins and then donate it to a school or local library.

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  Jim on Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:17 am

Aught3 wrote:Seems like a useless attempt to be honest. I think it might actually work in our favour, Ray's arguments are so bad undecided people can see right through them and it might actually get more people to read the origin of species, which is never a bad thing.
the sad thing is that this isn't true. people really do believe the nonsense he spews. he's not the only one running around declaring this bs, and people buy it all the time. this kind of thing is dangerous and harmful. there's no getting around that. i'm sure my mom will end up getting one, and i'll have to go through each of the arguments with her at some point. of course, i wasn't on Growing Pains, the Left Behind series, or Fireproof, i just teach philosophy, so my opinion will never carry the weight of kirk cameron and ray comfort.

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  jgrow2 on Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:22 pm

Jim wrote:
Aught3 wrote:Seems like a useless attempt to be honest. I think it might actually work in our favour, Ray's arguments are so bad undecided people can see right through them and it might actually get more people to read the origin of species, which is never a bad thing.
the sad thing is that this isn't true. people really do believe the nonsense he spews. he's not the only one running around declaring this bs, and people buy it all the time. this kind of thing is dangerous and harmful. there's no getting around that. i'm sure my mom will end up getting one, and i'll have to go through each of the arguments with her at some point. of course, i wasn't on Growing Pains, the Left Behind series, or Fireproof, i just teach philosophy, so my opinion will never carry the weight of kirk cameron and ray comfort.

What irks me is that they co-opted a Taoist concept in naming their garbage thinking The Way of the Master. Taoism (at least as presented in the Tao Te Ching) does not believe in ultimate evil or original sin. You are not born into sin like these fools contend, you are a tabula rasa at birth. As such you don't need to be saved by anyone but yourself (really) by returning to the Tao. As for evil, that only exists when you label other things as good. In other words, it's in the eye of the beholder.

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Re: Way of the Master + Darwin???

Post  Jim on Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:40 pm

jgrow2 wrote:What irks me is that they co-opted a Taoist concept in naming their garbage thinking The Way of the Master. Taoism (at least as presented in the Tao Te Ching) does not believe in ultimate evil or original sin. You are not born into sin like these fools contend, you are a tabula rasa at birth. As such you don't need to be saved by anyone but yourself (really) by returning to the Tao. As for evil, that only exists when you label other things as good. In other words, it's in the eye of the beholder.
way of the master: co-opting and bastardizing their "opponents" since inception.

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