Your thoughts on this article...

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Your thoughts on this article...

Post  Sosa on Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:04 pm

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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  LonghWynn on Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:29 pm

I find this guy silly. He proposes that atheists are all the same, when in fact, we're really not. Somehow, he thinks that we are so determined that if things were always like this, this particular configuration will come out. Clearly, this man is not educated with the knowledge of quantum mechanics, which inherently states that this world is probabalistic. Is this ultimate reality? I don't know, more research is needed, and apparently he needs more research too. He says nothing other than a nice little feel-good blurb about his faith. What about others?

Add insult to injury, the man also throws out the atheism has no standards card. Clearly, he hasn't heard of secular moralism. Beyond that, he brings up issues of aesthetic, which to my knowledge a belief in God does not give an adequate account anymore than not believing in God does. If it's beautiful because it was created, then I can say it's beautiful because it arrived out of the big bang. Neither he nor I have grounded it into anything more objective; he simply thinks he has because there's an invisible being there now. I'm simply more cognizant that maybe the invisible being is a creation of mine, and not the other way around.

As far as Hitchens goes, he's just being himself. I won't comment here Very Happy

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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  Nicholas on Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:33 am

The good Pastor Wilson just....doesn't get it. As LonghWynn mentioned, his understanding of Atheism doesn't extend beyond "they don't believe in our god". And he lets, as most theists do, his faith-based preconceptions mold his view of Atheism accordingly. Then he goes on Huffington Post and puts this drivel (wrapped up haphazardly in a messy cooking analogy) in black and white as a respectable position to take, juxtaposed to Hitchens (who, in contrast, does know his shit).

And yeah, his whole "lack of beauty" line was just bogus.
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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  MisterChristopher on Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:33 am

As I think I've seen it said somewhere else: There's two types of atheists: real atheists, and the theist's perception of atheists
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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  LonghWynn on Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:16 pm

MisterChristopher wrote:As I think I've seen it said somewhere else: There's two types of atheists: real atheists, and the theist's perception of atheists

you forgot the theists atheists, who believe in FSM (or Zeus in my case) Wink

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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  exxian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:02 am

"Nor does atheism allow us to have any fixed ethical standard, or the possibility of beauty."

Aw baby , you say that like it's a bad thing... now come over here and make love to me on a pile of aborted fetuses....


;-)


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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  Nicholas on Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:55 am

exxian wrote:Aw baby , you say that like it's a bad thing... now come over here and make love to me on a pile of aborted fetuses.... ]

That was a mildly disturbing mental image. You had me until the whole "aborted fetuses" part.

But yeah, we can't see beauty? I like to think we see the beauty of life and nature and all that shit for what it is, not for what we think created it.
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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  exxian on Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:07 pm

Nicholas wrote:
exxian wrote:Aw baby , you say that like it's a bad thing... now come over here and make love to me on a pile of aborted fetuses.... ]

That was a mildly disturbing mental image. You had me until the whole "aborted fetuses" part.

But yeah, we can't see beauty? I like to think we see the beauty of life and nature and all that shit for what it is, not for what we think created it.

What?!
You must not really be an atheist. Are you unaware that all atheists love having sex on fetuses?



Actually I feel much much more aware and in awe of the world's beauty since I left Christianity. In the same way that you are most aware of how pretty the beach is on your last day of vacation. I know when it's over, it's over, and that forces me to really take in everything more fully.
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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  Nicholas on Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:21 pm

exxian wrote:
What?!
You must not really be an atheist. Are you unaware that all atheists love having sex on fetuses?


Actually I feel much much more aware and in awe of the world's beauty since I left Christianity. In the same way that you are most aware of how pretty the beach is on your last day of vacation. I know when it's over, it's over, and that forces me to really take in everything more fully.

I've been doing it wrong all these years...
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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  jgrow2 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:25 am

Nicholas wrote:The good Pastor Wilson just....doesn't get it. As LonghWynn mentioned, his understanding of Atheism doesn't extend beyond "they don't believe in our god". And he lets, as most theists do, his faith-based preconceptions mold his view of Atheism accordingly. Then he goes on Huffington Post and puts this drivel (wrapped up haphazardly in a messy cooking analogy) in black and white as a respectable position to take, juxtaposed to Hitchens (who, in contrast, does know his shit).

And yeah, his whole "lack of beauty" line was just bogus.

He certainly does not get it. I don't think there's hope that someone who writes what I include below will *ever* understand how truly beautiful a non-theistic universe with planck length and electron states and solar flares and quantum probabilities massing into physical laws can be...

Contrast this with the Christian gospel -- God the Father is the Maker of heaven and earth. He sent His Son to be born one of us; this Son died on gibbet for our sins, as the ultimate and final human sacrifice, and He rose from the dead on the third day following. Having ascended into Heaven and taken His place at the right hand of His Father, He sent His Holy Spirit into the world in order to transform it, a process that is still ongoing. Now obviously, this is a message that can be believed or disbelieved. But the reason for mentioning it here includes the important point that such a set of convictions makes it possible for us to believe that reason can be trusted, that goodness does not change with the evolutionary times, and that beauty is grounded in the very heart of God. Someone who believes these things doesn't believe that we are just fizzing.

What is good or beautiful about any of that? And how does he figure we're fizzing again?
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Re: Your thoughts on this article...

Post  Nicholas on Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:46 am

Blah blah god, blah blah Jesus, blah blah sin....same shit, different wrapper.

And you're right, I doubt someone who actually believes that will ever really understand how ridiculous all of that sounds, and how we are able to see a pure and unadulterated beauty in the world that surpasses any fairy-tale.
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