International Blasphemy Day 2009

Tomorrow is the first annual International Blasphemy Day - a day where the liberty of free speech is honoured and celebrated by expressing that right to its fullest. The date has been chosen to commemorate the publishing of the Mohammed cartoons in 2005.

This is how Center For Inquiry describes the occasion:

Blasphemy Day International is a campaign seeking to establish September 30th as a day to promote free speech and stand up in a show of solidarity for the freedom to challenge, criticize, and satirize religion without fear of murder, litigation, and reprisal. It is the obligation of the world's nations to safeguard dissent and the dissenters, not to side with the brutal interests of those who demand "respect" for their beliefs (i.e., immunity to being criticized or mocked or they threaten violence).

So - what are you going to do tomorrow?

yea, i'm not really into this. i'm all about intellectually debating anything and everything, but i guess i have better things to do than just get together with a bunch of people with whom i likely have little in common just so i can point and laugh at a bunch of idiots.

Jim wrote:yea, i'm not really into this. i'm all about intellectually debating anything and everything, but i guess i have better things to do than just get together with a bunch of people with whom i likely have little in common just so i can point and laugh at a bunch of idiots.

But, would you be able to debate anyone if it weren't for free speech?

blacklens wrote:

Jim wrote:yea, i'm not really into this. i'm all about intellectually debating anything and everything, but i guess i have better things to do than just get together with a bunch of people with whom i likely have little in common just so i can point and laugh at a bunch of idiots.

But, would you be able to debate anyone if it weren't for free speech?

what does this have to do with anything? are you suggesting that we won't have free speech if we don't have an international blasphemy day? that seems like a false dichotomy to me. it don't think it's a choice between participating in i.b.d. or not having free speech. in fact, i could be a Christian and still be in favor of free speech. i could even make the argument that, as God wants us to choose Him freely, by legislating blasphemy laws we are actually getting in the way of God's will.

Jim wrote:what does this have to do with anything? are you suggesting that we won't have free speech if we don't have an international blasphemy day? that seems like a false dichotomy to me.

That's not what I'm suggesting at all. Who's pulling out the false dichotomy now? Nothing in my original post suggested anything other than exercising and standing up for free speech, yet your response suggested that it was all about pointing and laughing at idiots. Without even breathing you suggest that the only other option to pointing and laughing is intellectual debate, and that that's what you prefer. So there's nothing in between? You can't blaspheme while debating intellectually? You can't, however, have an honest intellectual debate without the right to free speech.

Sure, your not participating tomorrow won't make much of a difference. At least not tomorrow. But if we all take free speech for granted and at the same time censor ourselves in order not to offend anyone, we are on a slippery slope indeed.

blacklens wrote:

Jim wrote:what does this have to do with anything? are you suggesting that we won't have free speech if we don't have an international blasphemy day? that seems like a false dichotomy to me.

That's not what I'm suggesting at all. Who's pulling out the false dichotomy now? Nothing in my original post suggested anything other than exercising and standing up for free speech, yet your response suggested that it was all about pointing and laughing at idiots. Without even breathing you suggest that the only other option to pointing and laughing is intellectual debate, and that that's what you prefer. So there's nothing in between? You can't blaspheme while debating intellectually? You can't, however, have an honest intellectual debate without the right to free speech.

Sure, your not participating tomorrow won't make much of a difference. At least not tomorrow. But if we all take free speech for granted and at the same time censor ourselves in order not to offend anyone, we are on a slippery slope indeed.

if you weren't suggesting that the alternative to this was no free speech, then why did you post "But, would you be able to debate anyone if it weren't for free speech?" further, why include this in your next post: "But if we all take free speech for granted and at the same time censor ourselves in order not to offend anyone, we are on a slippery slope indeed." censor ourselves? i have no idea what you're talking about. who's talking about censoring ourselves? how are we censoring ourselves if we don't have a blasphemy day?
please tell me why you brought this up, because, as you explicitly state that you didn't mean this is some kind of dichotomy, then i have no idea why you're bringing the free speech thing up at all.

as a separate issue, yes, i think blasphemy day is about mocking people.

Let me just cut in here quickly and suggest an anthem for blasphemy day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KhVJ0aew0

That is all. You may continue.

Sorry for the late response, but sleep and work got in the way...

It almost feels as if we got off on the wrong foot here, so I'll try to take a few steps back and express myself differently.

I find the right to free speech to be one of the most important rights we have. If this right is to be worth anything it must include those things we don't agree with. I'm sure that you and everyone on this forum agrees with me on this. The right to free speech is something I've come to take for granted, and that scares me. Because when we (and I guess that with 'we' I actually mean 'me' since I really can't speak on behalf of anyone else) take something for granted, it is easy to ignore when tiny snippets of that right is being carved away. The thing is, though, that sometimes we do the carving ourselves. Sometimes we censor ourselves in order not to offend, just look at how media handled the Danish cartoons. However, sometimes the censoring is imposed on us, as might become the case in Ireland very soon.

I wish that the word 'blasphemy' didn't even exist; that the subject talked about didn't matter. But unfortunately that is not the case. And it most defintely isn't the case in theocracies around the world. For all our sakes we must stand up for the right to free speech, and that right includes blasphemy.

Sure, blasphemy implies offense, that's part of the defenition of the word. But that someone takes offense doesn't necessarily mean that offense was intended. I don't like being intentionally offensive, but I refuse to be responsible for how someone might feel about something I say about their religion, their political view or anything else. I have to be able to criticize their views. A blasphemy day might seem silly, but it can be a good way to raise people's awareness on the matter. I haven't participated myself, mostly because there wasn't any event to participate in where I live and partly because it's difficult to blaspheme here since not many people care about religion in the first place.

I hope I managed to explain my views a bit better this time.

And cleanwillie - thanks for the anthem

REAL WORLD by Gamma Ray

Here I sit again and think about the world we know
the same old thing, where do we come from and where do we go
Sometimes I worry just too much, sometimes I just don't care
and if you're with me on this point, put your hands high in the air
Let me hear you say Yeah!

Sometimes I'm happy as can be and sometimes feel so low
and what is good and what is bad, I sometimes just don't know
The world is the most crazy place that we could have been
It seems the meaning of our life is going down in sin

So let me live and let me be
your eyes are blind
but I can see

God is an illusion and there ain't no paradise
and there is no underworld below
Out there is no Heaven and there ain't no Antichrist
Welcome to the real World
and the show!

So let me take you down my dear to places you don't know
a land that you have not been to and normally don't go
I have all your pleasure toys, the fortune and the fame
so when you come with me my friend
you'll never be the same

So just say yeah, and come with me
don't be so blind, it's time to see

God is an illusion and there ain't no paradise
and there is no underworld below
Out there is no Heaven and there ain't no Antichrist
Welcome to the real World
and the show!

Don't be afraid now of the faces in the night
and let your body take control
We're going down into the beam of the neon lights
and I will purify your soul
Yeah!

Standing on a razor's edge, lost in space and time
All around the silence falls, prepared to draw the line
A shot, a cry, a flash of light, a bullet hits the wall
Not yet prepared, the fight for life is not yet lost at all

So come with me and let me be the one to lead you home
Like Diamonds we'll be shining bright before we turn to stone

God is an illusion and there ain't no paradise
and there is no underworld below
Out there is no Heaven and there ain't no Antichrist
Welcome to the real World
and the show!

Welcome to the show,
This is the real world
This is the real world
Welcome to the show
Yeah yeah yeah!

CULT bt Slayer

Oppression is the holy law
In God, I distrust
In time, His monuments will fall
Like ashes to dust

Is war and greed the master plan?
The Bible's where it all began
Its propaganda sells despair
And spreads the virus everywhere

Religion is hate
Religion is fear
Religion is war
Religion is rape
Religion's obscure
Religion's a whore

The pestilence is Jesus Christ
There never was a sacrifice
No man upon the crucifix
Beware the cult of purity
Infectious imbecility
I've made my choice, 666

Corruption breeds the pedophile
Don't pray for the priest
Confession finds the lonely child
God preys on the weak

You think your soul can still be saved
I think you're fucking miles away
Scream out loud, here's where you begin
Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned

Religion is hate
Religion is fear
Religion is war
Religion is rape
Religion's obscure
Religion's a whore

The target's fucking Jesus Christ
I would've lead the sacrifice
And nailed Him to the crucifix
Beware the cult of purity
Infectious imbecility
I've made my choice, 666

Jesus is pain
Jesus is gore
Jesus is the blood
That's spilled in war

He's everything
He's all things dead
He's pulling on the trigger
Pointed at your head

Through fear you're sold into the fraud
Revelation, revolution
I see through your Christ illusion

The war on terror just drags along
My war with God is growing strong
His propaganda sells despair
And spreads the violence everywhere

Religion is hate
Religion is fear
Religion is war
Religion is rape
Religion's obscure
Religion's a whore

There is no fucking Jesus Christ
There never was a sacrifice
No man upon the crucifix
Beware the cult of purity
Infectious imbecility
I've made my choice, 666

blacklens wrote:Sorry for the late response, but sleep and work got in the way...

It almost feels as if we got off on the wrong foot here, so I'll try to take a few steps back and express myself differently.

I find the right to free speech to be one of the most important rights we have. If this right is to be worth anything it must include those things we don't agree with. I'm sure that you and everyone on this forum agrees with me on this. The right to free speech is something I've come to take for granted, and that scares me. Because when we (and I guess that with 'we' I actually mean 'me' since I really can't speak on behalf of anyone else) take something for granted, it is easy to ignore when tiny snippets of that right is being carved away. The thing is, though, that sometimes we do the carving ourselves. Sometimes we censor ourselves in order not to offend, just look at how media handled the Danish cartoons. However, sometimes the censoring is imposed on us, as might become the case in Ireland very soon.

I wish that the word 'blasphemy' didn't even exist; that the subject talked about didn't matter. But unfortunately that is not the case. And it most defintely isn't the case in theocracies around the world. For all our sakes we must stand up for the right to free speech, and that right includes blasphemy.

Sure, blasphemy implies offense, that's part of the defenition of the word. But that someone takes offense doesn't necessarily mean that offense was intended. I don't like being intentionally offensive, but I refuse to be responsible for how someone might feel about something I say about their religion, their political view or anything else. I have to be able to criticize their views. A blasphemy day might seem silly, but it can be a good way to raise people's awareness on the matter. I haven't participated myself, mostly because there wasn't any event to participate in where I live and partly because it's difficult to blaspheme here since not many people care about religion in the first place.

I hope I managed to explain my views a bit better this time.

And cleanwillie - thanks for the anthem

i am all about standing up for free speech, including blasphemy. i didn't mean to suggest otherwise. what i meant was that i personally am not excited at the prospect of publicly blaspheming at a particular time merely for the sake of doing it. this has nothing to do with worrying about offending anyone. it's merely that it just doesn't seem like much fun to do something just because a bunch of idiots think i shouldn't. i'd rather spend that time reading or trying to get achievements on left 4 dead. that's all i meant.

For me he day was about getting the word out about the day and what it signifies. A lot of my friends/acquaintances are closet atheists, but it was more about pointing out the free-speech part of the day. If it meant that I might also point out something I believe to be true, so much the better.